Discussion in 'Empyrion Server Information' started by Stinefelt, Nov 1, 2017.
Had me thinking someone did something without asking me lol.
If the Quantity of PVE non-wipe play fields is the same or close to it I think you could rise the pooled limit for factions. 11 play field seem more then enough to accommodate your no-pay player base. I have not looked as most of my players are experimenting on other servers at the moment.
Many of the servers are suffering less issues with less restrictions on players. I do not know if it is your map advancements or what but EAG seems to be suffering more issues than the bulk of other servers, and I am believe your advancements to the maps have been mostly positive.
Offering more cores as a pool to factions may increase the incentive for migrant players to seek establishment in your server. I would suggest offering this to factions only as players that organize together are more likely to see the advantages/need for faction planets.
I believe referring to the core limit as a pool will reduce your descriptive explanations as times passes. It will also promote self policing of core counts among faction owners, while reducing the logistics of tracking the maker of each core.
Telling players that "they get 5 cores accost all of the PVE Non-Wipe play fields and that limit is added to a faction 'pool' when they join" sums up a clear explanation.
I think 5 is right for individuals, and it is easy to calculate. Several players indicate their desired limit is around 8. That is not so easy to calculate so if you wanted to raise it to offer an incentive I would suggest +10 per faction.
3 members in a faction ~ (3x5)+10 = 25 cores for 3 players which is 8 each
5 members ~ (5x5)+10 = 35 cores for 5 players which is 7 cores each
At 10 or so players they should have more than enough low use players to accommodate their high use players.
More importantly the math is still easy this way.
Someone pointed out that Faction Owners can not see the Private cores of Faction members on the registry. This presents a problem to the core limit concept, making it logistically difficult to police. I do not believe the faction should be punished for a rogue member hording cores because much like your server each faction has to take chances on new players to grow, however you should consider a clause that addresses this potential loop hole.
This is why you don't police it....we do. We can see how many cores each player has individually at a glance. We can set flags and warnings based on this as well. If the limit is crossed we know exactly who to speak with. The core limit was set, you argued your point, Stine graciously raised the limit to make it easier on players.
You seem to either ignore or forget that the limits are per playfield (planet, orbit, and moon if there is one). You can easily expand to orbit or a planet beside you and effectively double, triple, etc how many cores your members are using.
Perhaps you would like to read it. Playfield is not mentioned at all. Your suggestion would a lot each player 55 cores accost the 11 PVE zones. @Stinefelt did not raise the limit he lowered and for good reason. The advent of the larger PVE map would have rendered the old method unpractical, creating the same if not a worse problem than spurred the creation of the rule.
You are not taking into account that all but 4 of those PvE planets wipe on a weekly bases. There are actually only 4 non-wiping PvE planets
Like I said original, I have been investigating other servers lately. I have not see the map but regardless the rule was written to end the multiplication effect of play fields. Players still have the ability to utilize those play fields, so under your interpretation they only need to migrate their assets to exploit the rule. Exploits are kind of what you want to avoid.
If (All = Each) than the rule does not work at all. This was the major point I discussed with stine. He seen how it was easily broken when you multiplied play fields. Thus the change.
Actually, you explain our rule precisely. The new core limits spread out the cores to multiple playfields instead of a single one. Congratulations! You've grasped the concept
Hence the pool effect too. Each faction member only adds 5 to the total limit for all PVE play fields. Which honestly it is to your benefit when factions police their selves, as that is less you have to deal with. An Admin should only have to step in when they fail.
For example if they have 4 members with a limit of 20 total cores in PVE areas and one of their members has extra private cores than it is to your benefit to advice the faction owner/admin that they are over the limit because member B has 3 private cores. If they run their ship well their players will adjust, if they fail the faction will falter. In either case Admins should only intervene if the warning is not resolved in a reasonable amount of time.
It would be a logistical painful for you to micro manage factions. There are far better uses of your time. There are going to be groups where one player makes all the equipment for the faction, or one player is watching another players creations while the other is on vacation or deployed so they swapped cores. The practical reasons for a single player within a faction to utilize more than the base player limit are many.
It should only ever be an issue when the faction total exceeds the faction limit, thus treating it as a pool would spare you a lot of headaches, and having the players do most of the work to keep their faction members in line only saves you time to work on new server features. Those Self Regulating Concepts will save your more time than you can image. You just have to give then enough time to work.
As the original admin/moderator for this game for EAG, I can tell you that though you may have a utopian-esque faction, which operates within the optimal levels of cooperation and rules, most factions are not so fortunate in their operations, nor the cooperation of their members. We do not micro-manage them, beyond the general server rules. We do rely on the factions to police themselves, and as we cannot tell how many cores individual factions have, only players, we would have no way of knowing if there were core overages or not in a faction. So in the long run the core limit we have set is still the better option so as not to overwhelm us with tracking down cores per factions. We will still have the issue of core overpopulation on the pve worlds, because there will be those who don't stay within the limits we set, and there will be faction leaders who don't regulate their members well. And we are not going to be faction overseers, adding yet another tier of intervention to our service. Stine adjusted the core limits per your request and now you want more. As you are no longer part of the THE faction, and as far as I can tell you have not created a new faction, I don't think the issue should be that critical to you. Am I wrong, have you in fact started another faction, or are you playing single on EAG at the moment? In any case, we should let the core limits stand at least for a while and see how they work with the new map and playfields. A week is hardly a comprehensive test.
Agreed which is why it was just a suggestion. 10 planets was a significant jump from the previous map of 2. In the short period between wipes I did not see much development on the PVE worlds despite visiting many of them on a daily bases. And although I am not currently playing on EAG it does not mean that I have given up on it. I still watch the discord pop ups and review the activity reports from one of my faction members. EAGs numbers are down however the server has shown a lot of skill. The maps and POIs have hand their ups and downs with bugs and issues. I would hate to see EAG fail before it fully got started. You guys have a lot of potential.
I have 7 players currently reviewing all of the official servers and several of the unofficial, 2 are compiling the data. More than half of my players have been testing Hellion lately and landing the ship appears to be the biggest learning curve. When they are done with that game more of them will move back to Empyrion to try the 7.0 update. It will just be a matter of which server.
Well LOL, we have hardly just gotten started, we have had this server going for over a year, and yes the numbers ebb and wane for various reasons. The potential of our server is the same as it's draw, it is in the way we work together and do what is best for the server, and the community as a whole, and the way we support our players. Our admin team is small at the moment and we have had some real life issues going on for several of us, but we do our best to be here for the players and community as much as possible.
The EAG community has been in existence for several years...EAG is not Empyrion, it is a community made up of friends and family and new comers who usually eventually fall into the first two categories. It was started by Stinefelt and is very well established. We appreciate input and suggestions, and when applicable and practical for our server and it's unique characteristics, we implement it. Sometimes the suggestion works out, sometimes it does not, and we have to readjust. We discuss and debate the changes and issues that arise and we do what we feel is best, not just for the individual player or game, but for the community as a whole.
We have gone through different games, focusing on some for a time, and moving on to others. Whatever games we provide servers for, we always do our best to support our players and make their game experience the most enjoyable we can. Some players don't fit in some do. That is true of any game or server. No one finds a server that is perfect, but most find one that is close enough, and over look the incidentals. Some are never satisfied no matter what you do. Those players we are still happy to have play with us, but we don't lose too much sleep if they leave, because ultimately they aren't having fun. And that is the point of gaming, isn't it? We appreciate your suggestions, and hope you return to EAG. If not, I hope you'll find a server that meets your needs.
@Hitliz You simply must teach me these elusive and calm social skillz.
Playfield is a Planet, Moon, or Orbit allowing 1 player to have 15 cores in 1 sector. I will update the wording to reflect what was intended as I view Planet, Moon, and Orbit as Playfields.
Also welcome back Gawain, and please take a moment to catch up on the home page of http://community.eag.space as I'm sure you missed some information that we have been posting. The team here has been busy and we have been covering large amounts of items during our weekly team meetings. Not only that we also have made some post on the site so players can see better what we are talking about.
@Gawain I removed the post you did earlier. Considering you haven't played on this server for months it was irrelevant. If you decide to play here again at some point you are welcome to post to the community.